"...and CUT!" yells the director. Furry blue Grover, still in his waiter costume, casually rises from the floor and saunters off the set. Bert has been watching the filming from a special chair set up near the cameras. He makes a point of watching the filming of sketches he has personally written, although he rarely kibitzes or speaks at all during the taping. Bert turns to this writer, and speaks in a voice remembered from kindergarten: "He's pretty good, huh?" The ninety-minute interview that followed was one of the most pleasant experiences for this reporter since his interview with Janis Joplin in a Jacuzzi.
RS: So, Bert. It's been twenty years. You've appeared in almost every episode, and kids all over America still think of you as only the first syllable of "Bert 'n Ernie." How does that make you feel?
BERT: If you're asking if I feel neglected or overshadowed, the answer is an emphatic "No." I view my role in Sesame Street as essentially being one half of "Bert 'n Ernie." But unlike Bud Abbott, whose job was essentially to help Lou Costello get laughs, my role allows me to get laughs in my own right, which is quite satisfying. I love the role.
RS: But how do you reconcile the fact that Ernie also appears in varied sketches with Cookie Monster, Grover, Bob, Kermit, etc., while you tend to stick with the "Bert 'n Ernie" paradigm?
BERT:(laughs)I think I know what you're trying to do, but I'm going to have to disappoint you. Ernie appears in more skits because, frankly, he is more talented than I am. I know it, and he knows it. He is one of the most versatile performers on the show. He has the ability to generate a unique chemistry with whoever he's with. He is also a vastly underrated singer. Have you ever really paid attention to the sketches where he sings? He's really phenomenal.
RS: Do you ever sing?
BERT:I actually do on one of the skits. The funniest part of the sketch is that my singing is terrible. The director actually asked if I would prefer not to do that one, because the laugh would be at the expense of Bert the actor, rather than Bert the character.
RS: But you did the scene?
BERT: Sure, great fun.
RS:...so, are you really trying to tell me there is no competition between you and Ernie?
BERT:None. Ern and I are close in real life, as well as the show. We see each other socially at least four or five times a week. (...) The only real disagreement we had was at the very beginning of the series. I had viewed "Bert 'n Ernie" as a child's version of [Neil Simon's] The Odd Couple, with me as Felix Unger to Ern's Oscar Madison. Ernie wanted to do it as more of a Honeymooners, with Ernie as Ed Norton to my Ralph Kramden.
RS: How did you wind up resolving your differences?
BERT: Well, we never actually did. I pretty much think of "Bert" as a Felix Unger type, and Ernie thinks of himself as a didactic Art Carney. One thing you might want to watch for: In sketches that emphasize Ernie, I try to be more Kramdenesque, and in skits that I star in, Ernie tries to be a bit more like Matthau or Klugman.
RS:Did you write any of the "Bert 'n Ernie" scenes?
BERT:No. I've tried, but I really can't write for myself. I've written a couple of sketches for Ernie. Do you remember the sketch with Cookie Monster and the cupcakes?
RS: Where Cookie Monster kept ringing a bell and stealing Ernie's cupcakes?
BERT: Yeah, that was mine. I primarily write for Grover. I do all the ones where Grover is a waiter.
RS: Was it your idea to make him a waiter in the first place?
BERT: (smiles)There's a funny story to that. Cookie Monster, Ernie, Oscar, and I were in a delicatessen, and this waiter kept wanting Cookie Monster to eat Cookies for him. Whatever we ordered, this guy kept bringing us cookies. I laughed and said that we had to cast Grover as a waiter and have him do shticks like that.
RS: What is Grover like in real life?
BERT: He's a really nice fellow. He's a bit on the quiet side, actually. But he compensates for his inherent shyness by hamming it up on camera. His "Hey EVERYBODEEEE!" line was his own improvisation. He was supposed to say, "Hello children, my name is Grover Monster and today we are going to talk about the letter G." He thought the line sappy, but the writer refused to change it. So a second before the cameras rolled, he took off his costume, charged out in nothing but his own blue fur, and did the "Hey EVERYBODEEEE!" We were all dying of laughter. Bob [McGrath] was drinking at the time, and he spat his milk out just like a seven-year-old.
RS: Wait... Bob drinks MILK?
BERT: (laughs) Why does that surprise people? He drinks milk, never crosses against the light, etc. Bob is exactly like he is on the show.
RS: You've mentioned Cookie Monster several times. What's he like?
BERT: Cookie Monster is objectively the nicest actor on the show. That's not just my opinion. Everyone has people on the show that they like more than others, but all of us really love Cookie Monster. When anybody gets sick, he's always the first to send flowers, or to organize a get-well party. Here's a typical Cookie Monster story: We had Lena Horne on the show, and she was supposed to sign to him about shyness. Well, it turns out that Grover is a really big Lena Horne fan, and is also very shy. So Cookie Monster knew that there was no way that Grover would go over to her trailer and talk, so he convinced the writers to rewrite the bit and have Grover take his place.
RS: Now, he does eat cookies, right?
BERT: Sure. Not as many as he used to. His body is such that it really shows fat. After the first couple of seasons, he stopped really eating the cookies on-screen. He does love them, though. And yes, he really does say, "Coookie!" when he sees one. But he's a sweet guy.
RS: Of all the muppets on the show, Kermit has certainly been the most successful, with his own show and three feature films. What is he like?
BERT: He's very nice. Next question?
RS: I sense we are hiding something here?
BERT: Look. Suffice it to say that no one was surprised when he became a star. I certainly don't begrudge him his fame, and he worked very hard. He gave us all cameo roles in the first and third movies, and he didn't have to do that. But I'd really prefer it if we'd change the subject...
RS: Are there any characters on the show that really don't get along?
BERT: You're determined to keep this conversation negative, aren't you? We all pretty much like and respect each other. You have to realize that we are all working on a project that we believe in, so personal conflicts really don't enter into it.
RS: What about the reported fighting when Mr. Snuffle-Upagus debuted on the show?
BERT: I think that has really been blown out of proportion. I'd prefer not to... well maybe I had better set the record straight. When the writers decided to introduce another large character, Big Bird felt threatened. Up until then, he had a function as a sort of intermediary between the humans on the show and, well, the rest of us. So he did resent Snuffle-Upagus, and threatened to quit. As a compromise, the writers promised that they would not have Snuffy interact with anybody else on the show except Big Bird, which is why most of the bits with him consisted of Bob, Gordon, and Susan not believing in his existence, and never perceiving him. Mr. Snuffle-Upagus was understandably upset by this arrangement, and forced the writers to change it as soon as he became popular enough with the kids to have clout. But they've always been outwardly civil to each other, and perfectly professional, unlike what some people have reported, including the Rolling Stone.
RS: Do you have a favorite "Bert 'n Ernie" sketch?
BERT: I actually do. It's the one where Ernie is writing a poem that begins, "I like flowers, I like dirt, but most of all, I like (blank)." He keeps waking me up with different last words, none of which rhyme with "dirt." Finally, he settles on, "I like flowers, I like dirt, but most of all, I like Bert." I then tell him that it is an incredible poem, and say it aloud, very corny and dramatic. He then tells me to be quiet, because he's trying to sleep. (laughs) I love that one.